and soviet leader mickael gorbachev. >> the way to democracy is sometimes a complicated way and sometimes trying but it is a good way and we believe, the best way. and once again, mr. general secretary, i want to extend to you and to all those who labored so hard for this moment, my warmest personal thanks. >> watch "real america" sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on american history tv on c-span 3. >> next, the senate primary debate from utah between republicans mitt romney and state representative mike kennedy. they're running to replace retiring senator orrin hatch. utah's primary lengths will take place on june 26. this debate took place at brigham young university. [applause]

>> welcome. welcome. i'm david, professor of political science at brigham young university. it's my pleasure to moderate today's debate at the invitation of the utah debate commission. this event, held live may 29 is part of the utah debate commission's work to educate voters and encourage the civil exchange of ideas ffment you're watching or listening live, we encourage your comments and questions on social media using the hashtag ut debates. reven primary candidates mike kennedy and mitt romney are in the study today, competing for the u.s. senate seat currently held by orrin hatch, who is retiring at the end of this term. voters will select between the

two candidates in the june 26 primary election. whoever wins in june will then e in the november election representing the republican party. both mr. romney and mr. kennedy will be answering questions posed by myself and a panel of students and journalist is. are panelists are a recent high school graduates, and newly eligible voters. a senior at utah university. recent honors graduate from b.y.u.'s political science roach, nd lisa reilly political reporter. the format includes one-minute answers from each candidate. they'll have the opportunity to offer a 30-second rebuttal. we may pose a follow-up question at our discretion. the candidates will have 30 seconds to answer those.

prior to the debate, a coin toss determined that mr. kennedy will provide the initial response to the first question. we'll alternate who answers first on the remaining questions. let's gets right into the questions. representative kennedy, it's important for every voter to know something personal about a candidate. the utah debate commission crafted a question for each that allows this opportunity. there will not be a rebuttal on this first question. why are you seeking election to the u.s. senate and what uniquely qualifies you for this high office? >> thanks for that question, david, it's a pleasure to be with you and these fine, upstanding people with brigham young uniforms. , where i graduated with my law degree. this is my county as well. it's where i practice medicine. i love practicing medicine here and serving the people. in addition, i've been a state legislator for utah county,

people and citizens and it's a pleasure for me to serve them in this way as well. we've fought to foster and support such a great exi -- economy that even a boston, massachusetts, businessman has seen fit to relocate here and we're grateful to have him here and i welcome you, my friend, to utah. and i'll just say utah is open for business. i love utah. it's a pleasure to serve here and the people are outstanding and i want to make sure we have an outstanding representative in washington to make sure that washington works for utah, not detroit working for washington. >> governor romney, why are you seeking this position? >> thank you and if you for opening up the study for welcoming us today. i want to thank the people of utah. i've had the opportunity to go across the state and 29 counties and i love it. the beauty of our state is only

matched by the beauty of our people. we're going to use a clot -- lot of clout in washington as orrin hatch retires. no one can replace all that clout but i do believe with the experience i have and also with the rhythms at the white house, with some 40 senators who i've campaigned with, republicans all, i do believe i'll provide some weight. some parts of our state are growing like crazy. others are in real distress right now. i want to do everything in my power to help the people of utah and i believe i'm in the best position to do so. >> our first question comes from a sfufpblete. for governor romney. >> thank you. the health organization the french care system is ranked first in the world. america ranks 37. how will you improve our current health care policy, handle the profit-making centers and

medical providers and would that include making health care more accessible, especially for the uninsured and those with preexisting conditions? >> i wouldn't give a lot of people to the people in france about deciding who's got the best health care system. because if people in france get real sick, they come here. i've learned a great deal about health care and recognize that the right place for health care policy to be crafted and implemented is at the state level, not the federal level. our constitution said those powers not specifically granted to the federal government are reserved to the states of the people. and yet with obamacare, president obama took over our health care system. wrong answer. return the health care to the people of utah and leapt them decide what's best. mark paced centers are saying that homentsdz and providest need to provide their price so that people understand how much

it costs to get a particular procedure at a particular institution and also their quat -- quality, their success rate. these who -- two pieces of information will get health care to function like a markets. >> representive kennedy? >> thank you. david. i know a little bit about health care and i believe our health care system is an outstanding system. unparalleled throughout the world and i will stand with our hospitals and providers of health care on multiple levels and reflect the fact that we love serving our people and we are more than capable of serving our people. we reach out on a routine level trying to help them and their needs and i as a voluntary care clinic in provo serve the people for free in provo trying to help people and their health care needs. people have access. they can go to any emergency department throughout the country. and if there's regulation that needs to be done, it should be done in the state legislature

because it's accountable and responsive to the people. i've seen that in the form of steve's bill where we've expanded primary care network and provided additional access for people that don't have the means to have access to insurance and i stand with the state legislature in accomplishing that. >> do either of you want to have a rebuttal? >> i think the comments the representative made are spot on. >> and i appreciate governor romney, he sounds almost like a doctor. >> i have a follow-up. i'd like you to address the issue of the the affordable care act is taken away, as has been frequently voted on in the house, what will be the substitute with respect to preexithsing conditions, the uninsured, coverage for those, and especially, given our audience at a university, people who are not on their parent' insurance but were covered on the affordable care act. on those specifics, how would

you respond? governor romney and then representative contender. >> first of all, obamacare does need to be repealed but i don't want to see the federal government instead of in with a new federal program. i want instead health care to return to the states. at the state level we'll make sure we have coverage for people with preexisting conditions and make sure that everybody ultimately has access to insurance and has insurance. having had the experience of being a governor and putting together a plan that worked for our state at a state level, the right answer is not a federal take over of health care, it's return the power to the states and the state of utah knows a lot better how to care for people here, how to make sure that people with preexisting conditions don't get excluded from insurance. we want people to get insurance. the reason is if they don't have insurance and they debt g -- get

sick and they go to the emergency room to get covered or treated, guess who pace for it? you do. the people paying or free care are you. the people pay for those that don't. utah knows how to do it. obamacare is the wrong way to go and need to be repealed. >> representative kennedy? >> obamacare definitely needs to be repealed. i'm not interested in more government programs. my opeanut on some level has created more government programs and instilled in his state and instilled that. it was a state that wanted that but in the state of utah, i, along with many others, stood against obamacare and i stand by there. it's best delivered by third-party players working together. when it comes to preexisting conditions, i've had great patients with very minor medical issues that in the past had no access to insurance. it was shameful how it was.

they need to be -- have access to insurance. when it comes to 26 year ofledse who have access to insurance, i'm in favor of that as well but i'm not investing in the taxpayers paying for that. i believe free market reforms are the best way for us to move forward on health care. >> next question from me and representative kennedy first. president trump since taking office has withdrawn from the transpacific partnership, is renegotiating the north american field trade agreement and has imposed tariffs on china and other countries, although day-to-day those are in flux. what are your views on tariffs and trade and specifically the flee i mentioned. representative kennedy? >> the art of negotiation is something that our chief negotiator is able to clearly work forward on and i stand with the president. i think he's done an outstanding

job moving forward on many of those -- these issues. i feel like in the past that prior administrations weren't watching out for the american people service they were for their own political legacy. and i believe especially in the case of nafta, it's important we make sure these policies work for the american people, not for other citizens throughout the world so i stand with the president in working on these issues and making sure they work for the american people so we're not put at a disadvantage throughout the world in our dealings with our partners on trailed and on multiple other levels throughout the world. >> romney? >> first of all, with regards to t.t.p., the president but also bernie sanders and hillary clinton were all against t.t.p. and i think they were wrong. i think the president is inclined to consider opening that up again. i think it's a good idea. it's important for us to

remember that combroit is an export state. we want new markets for our goods and as muches so t.p.p. is something i'd like to sethe president pursue and i'd be hable happy to help him. next, thata, canada and mexico are our two largest trading partners. we don't want that to be disrupted but in regards to automotive products in particular, mexico is getting too good a deal. that needs to be addressed but the real problem regards china. 2/3 of the trade deficit we have is with china and china cheats. they steal our technology. they are not fair with regards to the processes we have in this country and so we're going to have to get touch with them and the president is. i applaud the fact that he's being tough on china, pinpointing particular areas of their economy and companies that are treating and being unfair. that's the right thing to be doing. i don't want to see broad tariffs. a trade war is not good for utah

but specifically going after the bad actors, that makes sense. >> representative kent, a rebuttal on this? >> i'm pleased to hear that my opponents is willing to stand with the president on such an important issue. i encourage him to do that and i certainly would as well. >> governor romney, any rebuttal? >> it's not a rebuttal. i appreciate the compliment and the reality is that i'm happy to stand with the president whenever i feel that he's doing something that's right for the country, right for utah and i think it's prorkt that the president is looking at trade deals. i think in many instances, trailed deals haven't been imp -- inch police departmented or perhaps negotiated effectively and when countries cheat the way china has, heart attacking into our systems, stealing our technology, not abiding by our trailed agreements, we need to have a president that steps up to it and i'm glad he's doing

it. >> a quick follow-up. 30 second. you differ in respect to the people in your analysis. in governor romney's about utah benefiting from and a half attachment i want to is -- nafta. i want to ask ugoh both, what is in utah's interests with nafta and what about the experience of a trade war? we've experienced that in the past with a senator from utah named smoot. do we want a trade war? >> sadly tariffs a lot of times punish those we intend to protect and i talked to the good citizens of utah that may be implicated in these wars associated with the tariffs and possibly in these negotiation. their business is being harmed. however, someone i talked to in one of my meetings says -- said i am buying aluminum on a

regular basis and these far riffs are going to hurt me but i tanled is with the president because i know in the end we're going to get a better deal as a result ofwalk working forward with this. by need a president who will talk tough and i stand with the president moving forward. if you're not going to be tough about it they're just going to roll you over as sadly has happened in the past. >> governor romney? >> trade wars aren't good for us or anybody and no one i don't think wants to see a trade war and hopefully we'll be able to avoid that but you can't walk way from the table so quickly. you have to stand up for your interests and i have to look out for utah's interests. particularly or mining sector and recognize they have to have a fair, level playing field and ensure that markets are opened up particularly for eak churl and mining products, our cole

and these things. -- coal and these things. if of course it's appropriate for us to make sure that a trade agreement works to the benefit of our country. we can't back away. but don't put in place broad based across the world tariffs because that will scare away our friends, make our alliances weaker and make some of the bad guys in a stronger position. that would be a mistake and i don't think the president wants to go there. >> our next question to governor romney first. >> governor romney, in light of the recent deadly school shootings in florida and texas, i'd like you to address what you see as the federal government's role in dealing with school shootings and beyond just improving safety procedures in schools, i'd like to know if you'd be will be -- willing to ban the sale -- sell and possession of bump stocks, and impose a three-day waiting

period to guy a -- buy a gun and then talk about the broader question of a federal government role in protecting students in schools. >> i begin by affirming my con conviction -- conviction that the second amendment need to be protected and i do not favor new gun legislation. the exception is that enhanced gun background checks and i think we should ban the sell of bump stocks to the general government. but our young people shouldn't have to worry about going to scoop and parents shouldn't have to worry about losing a child. it's unthinkable. interestingly, banks have figured out how to keep people from robbing banks. and our kids are worth a lot more than the money. and the banks make sure there's limited access to the building and also that there's an armed personal at the bank. if we want to have schools that are straight, make sure we have an armed person or people at the

school or nearby that can respond and repep. number two, limit the access. rograms put in place mannetometr, s. number three, put in place an anonymous way to contact officials if there's a per septembered danger and finally, an intervention individual or team that can step in when etch an individual who represents that type of threat. >> thank you, david. it's quite clear to me that it's not the gun that fires itself, it's the person behind the gun that's the issue. we need outreach to our citizens and our society. we need to find these individuals that perm trait these heinous crimes and deal with them well before these crimes happen. we need better harke mental health services available and

outreach so when an individual is talking about these kinds of activity, as was reflected in parkland, florida, there were multiple signs that that perpetrator was on the way towards doing something terrible and in the end, all of those systems failed us. we need to be quick to respond and deal with these things before they become an issue. i, like everybody else, thought something has to be dope that's when i created the utah commission. it's a commission that i'm proud to say is being replicated around the country. people nano the community are getting together so we brought together an architecture, teachers, parents and students and all of these people, including a gun rights activist are working on finding solutionings that actually work. when it comes to banning things like bump stocks, it doesn't work so i don't believe that's going to be a useful stem.

if i'm going to step into this arena, i want to make sure that our actions actually work, which is why we created the utah school safety commission. we're meeting for the eighth time this thursday. >> governor romney, a rebuttal? >> i applaud the work of the commission and the input of various individuals. oftentimes there's a lot. of talk associated with government and commissions. i hope this, obviously, is very different but i'll go back and reiterate what i mentioned earlier on which is i think we have some pretty good models for what it takes to protect something of great value, like a child. at a school you have to have someone there that's armed. you have to have limited access, you have to be able to have warnings and that's individuals, parents or colleagues that each someone that might represent a threat and then you have to be able to intervene once someone has been warned about. we can talk in great length but

frankly, it's time for us to act. one of the frustrations people have with people in politics is that people like myself and others don't get the job done. and i can assure you that as your senator, i'll work very hard to get these and other topics accomplished. >> we all have the right to do that but i stand firmly with the second amendment. my legislative record is clear. i have not voted against any bill that would ban second-amendment rights for the people of yoifment i feel it's important for to us be consistent as to our records on this. community-based solutions are what's going to work and we need to purpose on the perpetrator of the crime, not on the weapon that's used. >> governor romney, you were specifically mentioned so we'll allow 10 second for your time. >> i'm a believer in the right of states and localities to make

their own decisions and an interesting thing happened while i served as governor of massachusetts. the pro gun lobby said we're rn conditioned about all the restrictions we have on weapons and hunting and being able to carry weapons in massachusetts. the anti-gun weapon said we're worried about assault weapons so the two of them came together and formed a piece of legislation that banned certain weapons and at the same time expanded the rights of gun-carrying individuals to be able to hunt and carry guns throughout the state so they worked on something on a collaborative basis. isn't that a remarkable thing? and i have i have -- i was happy to see two sides find a solution that worked and i supported that. >> representative kennedy? >> thank you, governor, for the local solutions. i think that's really important but on this issue, as with others, the main thing that's consistent about your record on this is it's inconsistent. it's hard for me to know as our

u.s. senator, what you'll do on this and other issues. very dereally it will ever alare allowed to change our ind but i would like to know hat my senator thinks. >> will you support the utah marijuana initiative has a provide voter? should federal marijuana laws be enforced? >> i've been using crepestary and -- chemistries and medicines -- to ople and i am so create life-saving measures. i think fish -- initiatives are a direct competition of it will of the people so i am grateful nat people of utah are motivated

enough to form this initiative. i will not be voting for it. i'm a doctor. and i've found even with new melds that are f.d.a. approved and had been through years of study that as those medicines were released on the market, we found after two or three years of people using nose melds, they had -- medicines, they had problems we never ni knew about. i do not support recreational marijuana. we need to move marijuana off of schedule one into schedule two where we can do the studies that we need so we know what the substance is and how to use it safely with our population. >> governor romney? >> i agree with dr. kennedy in that regard. his initiative is not really medicinal marijuana. i support medicinal marijuana when a person with a condition

receives a prescription from a real doctor and it's filled by a real pharmacy. that is something, in my opinion, we ought to have and move there as quickly as we can to get to the people that really reliefin alleviation the they need as quickly as possible. but the ballot initiative is going to open the door to corner stores selling marijuana-laced brownies and gummi bears. you're going to have marijuana that's going to be in our schools across our state. that is not the right way to go. the way to go is to say let's legalize medicinal marijuana with prescription prescription and filled entirely or exclusively through pharmacies like c.v.s. and walgreens and so on. that's the right way to go. this initiative is not the right way to go and i hope the people of utah take a careful look at

this. >> let's go to the next rep. kennedy: we've opened the door already for young ones to receive epilepsy treatment. terminally ill individuals have had access to this medicine through the state legislative purview we've pushed forward with legislation. so david and people generally i'd just say we're working on this already. state based solutions are going to work. we need more access to information which is what i promote as your u.s. senator. >> i just note i think there is great frustration on the part of people who need this kind of palliative care that something doesn't happen on this front. there seems to be broad agreement but never movement. and one of the reasons i'm in this race and intending to go i believe i is can shake things up and get people to move and to pull together. it has to happen on this as well as a number of other issues. moderator: the next question

from me goes to governor rom nee first. given the summit with the united states and north korea has been canceled what should be the u.s. position on north korea's nuclear arms program? specifically should the u.s. make a preemptive strike on north korea nuclear facilities and missiles? governor rom any? gov. romney: our objectives in north korea are very clear, a complete denuclearization of the peninsula on a permanent basis which is completely verifyable. that is our objective. we won't vary from that. the president has made it very clear. we are still in the negotiation stage. all right? the meetings are on again off again. that is a bit of a negotiation on the part of our side and their side. so it is too early to judge what is finally going to happen. i'm certainly not going to say something which would in any way compromise our commitment as a nation to the president's effort with regard to north korea. i assure you what lindsey graham senator from south carolina said very much reflects the view of the

president and my own as well which is that either north korea will denuclearize on a permanent and verifyable basis through a diplomatic basis or there will be a military process. it is one way or the other and they have to make that choice. they have to understand that we're committed and united in that front. i applaud by the way our democrats in washington at this stage who are not carping and attacking the president but are standing firm recognizing this is a negotiation. we need to show that kind of unity. this is a very important issue. we cannot have north korea selling nuclear weapons around the world or threatening the homeland of our grate nation. moderator: representative kennedy? rep. kennedy: i'll say the on again and off again nature of this negotiation almost feels like a 16-year-old romance process where it is off and on and you never know who is doing what. the reality is the president is an extremely capable negotiator and i've been very impressed in the past year plus in the things he has been able to accomplish. as to using the power of military might, i hesitate

about that just like with tari economic warfare and actual warfare, both of those are tools that can and sometimes should be used but very judiciously and only when the right data is driving the right decision. i agree with governor romney that we need a denuclearized korea peninsula and i am in favor of whatever it takes to make that happen and would not take off the table military might but i would say on that level that i need more data to understand whether or not that is something that should be embarked upon. i would say i trust the president to do the right thing and i think he is moving us in the right direction and want to see that continued and i would support him in that. moderator: i think you both agree so we'll take a break. if you're just joining us we are about half way through a debate featuring the republican party candidates for the u.s. senate seat being vacated by orrin hatch. i'll be the moderator for today's exchange. candidate mike kennedy received the most votes from republican delegates at the party's april

convention. mitt romney qualified for the ballot using the signature gathering option allowed by utah law. utah's registered republican voters will decide june 26 whose name will be on the november ballot as their party's candidate. you can submit your comments or questions to the live broadcast on social media by using the # ut debates. let's get back to questions. this one is to representative kennedy first. >> thank you. you both want to fix the immigration system but here in utah there is a large labor shortage with unemployment at 3.1%. what is your stats on increasing -- status on increasing legal immigration? what is your solution to the fate of children brought here illegally by parents the dreamers? do you favor deportation, an extension of the d.a.c.a. legal protections, or a process where they could become citizens? moderator: representative kennedy? rep. kennedy: thank you, alex, for that important question. i'll say first that as the first generation american on my

father's side my dad is a naturalized american citizen. i've been blessed to be raised n the united states of america and have access to the american dream. the fact my grandfather and father came across the border and grew up in the united states and allowed me to be born in the united states is a great heritage for me and i honor that and i want people to have access to that. but we need to make sure it is done in a legal and ordered fashion. we are a country of laws to make sure we are civilized and social in our process. first and foremost we need border security. we have to stand firm on border security. when it comes to border security, our president made a promise. his promise was simple. i will build a wall. we will make our borders secure. i stand with the president in keeping that promise. we should as candidates keep promises that we make on the campaign trail. the second thing is legal immigration needs to be possible. it needs to be easier than illegal immigration. so i stand with the president also in working on that.

then finally, the third step would be dealing with these decent, honorable people we call dreamers, some of which i could have been in the distant past, and i would say there are solutions but we have to go with number one and number two first before we move to the third issue, which is still important but something that we have to prioritize with the others. moderator: governor romney? gov. romney: immigration is a mess in this country and our testimony is a testament to how ineffective washington has been and the great need for leadership here. we need to reform our legal immigration system so people know where they stand as they apply to become either a green card holder or a citizen of the united states. they ought to have points based on speaking english and having skills we could use in our country. that is number one. number two, we have to make sure illegal immigration is stopped. all right? we welcome legal immigration. it's the lifeblood of our country. we need people to come here legally and we welcome them. illegal immigration has to stop. so sure, yes.

a barrier against latin americans coming across the border, we also need to make sure our e-verify system punishes employers that hire people who they should have learned were illegal in our country. with regard to the dreamers, look, it doesn't make sense for us to have 1.8 million people living in limbo and wondering if they'll be arrested and deported. this has to be resolved. the president proposed resolving it back in january. the democrats agreed. the republicans agreed. how come we can't get people together and get this resolved? in my view, as the president proposed, the dreamers ought to be given legal status, not a special pathway to citizenship but they ought to have the opportunity to get in line like everybody else if they want to become a citizen. but not sending them outside the country without being deported. that is the president's view at least as expressed in january and is something i support. i'll work hard to fix our legal immigration system and to stop illegal immigration. moderator: is there a response

or rebuttal, representative kennedy? rep. kennedy: i thought i remembered in the presidential campaign something about self-deportation, but that's fine. i guess that opinion has changed as well. i'm in favor of immigrants coming here and being able to come here legally. god bless these decent people. i want them to be here. i am a reflection of what it means to be an immigrant in this country, so let's make sure we do it in an organized, ordered fashion. moderator: response? gov. romney: self-deportation was a reference to e-verify which i mentioned in my first comment. which is if you punish employers for hiring people who are here illegally and people can't get jobs because they're here illegally, they will leave the country on their own as opposed to having to be arrested and taken out of the country by our i.c.e. agents. i think people ought to be able to vote with their feet or if you will, leave with their feet when employers are no longer able to hire them. recognize, putting a wall up is the right thing to do but, also, at the same time a lot of people come here legally and

stay. and if they can get jobs here they don't go away. if you have an e-verify system that keeps people from getting jobs here illegally, that would allow people to go home on their own, if you will, self-deciders. that is in my opinion one of the best ways we can enforce our legal immigration system laws. moderator: let me ask a followup to both of you on this. representative kennedy, you laid out in order what you thought needed to happen and only third would you address the dreamers question. are either of you willing to compromise and have partial funding of the wall, some changes in immigration policy, dreamers address the issue or is it a must the full wall be funded and all immigration issues be corrected before you deal with immigration? representative kennedy? rep. kennedy: as we embark upon those adventures the reality is every party is looking out for their best interest. if in a negotiation something is given before it should be given then the other party is

going to cease negotiating or completing their part of the deal. for me, it stands firm. we have to secure our borders. otherwise the problem continues to get worse. people continue to cross the porous borders and make it so the d.a.c.a. issue, these blessed dreamers, there are more of them than we have to try -- then we have to try to figure out how to work through that. i believe it is important in this negotiation we respect the lives and have compassion for those lives but we need to make sure we have the first priority in place and that is border security. and that we are at least working on our legal immigration process when we start to work with the decent people we call dreamers. moderator: governor romney? gov. romney: i have to stand with dr. kennedy on this. in a negotiation you don't lay out where you are willing to compromise to. in my view it is essential to have a barrier against the southern border, to also have a very firm and effective e-verify system. i also think we need to have a tracking system that identifies people who have come here

legally on a visa and may not have returned home. these kinds of things all have to be put in place. the president has also said we migration chain which is the idea remote family members get to come into the country if one person is already here. and he said no more lottery immigration which is randomly picking people. i agree with the president on those things and i believe we should work together to make sure that all of those things come together in a way to fix our immigration system. i can tell you, i am not going to stand by and let nothing happen. i ran for president in 2008. this was an issue then. it is unbelievable in this country we can't resolve this issue. young people and people who want to come here legally deserve to know what america is going to do. it's time for us to resolve it. moderator: the next question will go to governor romney first. >> thank you. the u.s. national deficit is expected to cross the $1 trillion mark by 2020. given that this is a 50%

increase since republicans took over congress earlier last year, how do you plan on addressing this issue, given that republican control seems to have only exacerbated the problem? gov. romney: this is the big issue and one of the reasons i want to go to washington. that is that this national debt is a much bigger threat for the american people than i think we actually recognize. not only an economic threat, but a national security threat. our national debt is about $21 trillion. $71,000 per household in america. most people don't worry about that because they say who is going to pay that off? i'll never pay it off. i hope people recognize they're paying the interest on the debt right now. last year we spent $300 billion on interest on the national debt. that's going up to $700 billion. we're adding a trillion a year to the deficit. and to the debt. this is under republican leadership. it is inexcuseable. we're spending $4 trillion a

year as a government. we're only taxing $3 trillion. we are trillion short. we got to get serious about finally balancing our budget. there are ways to do that. i'm going to work together with other senators, get a group together to go to mitch mcconnell or whoever our leader is and say, mitch, woor' not voting for the next continuing resolution, not voting for the next omnibus bill unless we live within the spending caps. get back to an appropriations process that allows us to finally get on track to a balanced budget. moderator: representative kennedy? rep. kennedy: as a child who grew up in poverty something i learned early on is if i didn't learn how to control money it would control me. and those messages, i didn't need to learn them out of a book. i didn't need to have a professor teach me those things. i felt them deeply in my heart as a result of the stress and the strain that we had as a family because we didn't know where the next meal was coming from. coming from the circumstance where i had free school hundred are ch as well as church welfare to support this family, i am grateful for the resources

we had that were available to us. i know it is vital that we control our money. when it comes to not just me, but my children, my grandchildren, my great grandchildren, we are mortgaging and bankrupting our future the way we continue to spend in almost a gluttonous fashion for the president and bankrupting the -- for the present and bankrupting the future. i reject that premise. i believe it is vital as american citizens as we look to our future that we take care of our needs, keep our promises to the most needy of our society at this point. but we must also remember that 50 and a hundred years from now those people look to us and say, thank goodness or curses on their names if we do not make the right decisions regarding this. i will vote no on continuing a resolution omnibus bills. i will vote on -- vote no on bills i do not have a chance even to read. on process alone i cannot stomach the possibility that i don't even know what's in this bill and i'm supposed to vote for it. we need to control our

spending. i've done it personally. i've done it in the state legislature where we balance our budget with our good governor every year. it is possible. and i will do that as your u.s. senator as well. moderator: i'd like to ask a followup to both of you on this. given your answers. one is, you both stated the claim you would not vote for omnibus or continuing resolutions in this area. we had a government shutdown. utah senator mike lee was one of the leaders of that. sounds to me like you would favor a shutdown if you can't accomplish what you've said. that's question one. question two, how do you accomplish a reduction in the deficit without reducing spending for entitlements or defense since so much of the federal budget in those two categories, real traction on the deficit, can only come with cuts in those areas? i think this one goes first to governor rom any. i think this goes first to governor romney. gov. romney: first, you don't want to shut down government given a notice 48 hours before

a bill is going to go up or down and you say if you don't vote yes the government will shut down. that is the wrong way to approach it. what has to happen is i have to get a group of senators together of like mind and there are a number that i know and go to the leadership well in advance, months in advance, and say we're telling you up front. you can't bring another one of these bills to us with 48-hour notice, closing government if we don't vote for it. you have to realize unless this bill lives within spending caps, unless we have a normal budget process, appropriations process, unless you put in place the chance for us to amend and debate, we're going to vote no. so you know that now. and this gives you more strength by the way in your negotiations with the democrats. you can tell them, look, we can't get this bill through unless we follow the normal process. that is number one and how we get there. in terms of how do you get the money out? yeah. you are absolutely right, professor. which is you have to go where the big money is. 2/3 of our money is in entitlements. you may recall as i ran for president i put out a plan to

balance our entitlement spending. medicare, medicaid, social security. we increased the age of retirement for people who are 55 years of age and younger by one to two years. we also had lower benefit growth for high income people than for low income people. and on that basis we balanced the spending for our entitlements. this is one more area and that is our discretionary spending. in that area you have to go through piece by piece and eliminate programs. you can't cut a little bit here and there. you have to say which things need to go back to the states where they can be run more cost effectively, whichrograms need to be eliminated all together. there is way too much government, way too many programs, get rid of these programs. get them back to the states where they belong. moderator: representative kennedy? rep. kennedy: state of utah already has this all figured out. in fact, our unemployment rate is 3.1%. we have an economy that is the envy of the country. how do we do that? we cut taxes. we keep them low. we keep the regulatory burden off of the backs of our citizens and off of the backs

of our small businesses. of which i am one of them. i am a small business owner as well. and when government gets in the way, we always find that it ends up burdening us to the point where they're not moving the programs forward that they're supposed to move and, ultimately, we can't move forward in innovations and growing our economy as we should. why do i talk about growing the economy as the state of utah has done and as i've been privileged as a legislator to do? it's because in growing the economy, people are hired. their salaries increase. and as a result of that, they pay more taxes. when they pay more taxes, than our deficit on a positive level, you don't need to make cuts if you raise the value of the economy as the state of utah has done. so the first thing is get the government out of the way so the good people of the united states can accomplish what they can accomplish, which in general is prosperity and freedom. and then, secondly, yes. we cannot tax our way out of these problems. we need to make cuts. when it comes to cuts, it's a

simple matter of everything is on the table in a small level. rand paul, senator rand paul talks about the penny plan. ok. if the penny plan is too painful how about a half penny plan? how about a quarter penny plan? there has to be somewhere we can all work together. it's not democrats cutting republicans' priorities or republicans cutting democrat priorities. we're all in this together not just for us but for our future. i believe, david, and for the people of the united states and for the good people in utah, we can do this if we all work together. moderator: we're going to a social media question now. this one will go first to representative kennedy. this comes in through facebook from nathan steve ricks. there is one healthcare system run by the federal government, the veterans administration. what possible solution would you propose to reform the v.a. to ensure it becomes accountable and responsive to the patients it is designed to treat. one minute on this so we can get to a few more questions as well. representative kennedy? rep. kennedy: thank you, david.

as a health care provider it's been sad. i take care of veterans regularly and i love to take care of them just like i love to take care of my other patients as well. when they come to see me, they come under their medicare man get an hey couldn't appointment with their veterans administration doctor. the reality is our v.a. system, we have one hospital in salt lake city and i work in utah county. that is a relatively short drive, 30 to 45 minutes depending where you are. we have people all over the west who have to go to that v.a. system for their medical care. and they call to get an appointment and they might get an appointment in four or five weeks. there is no way with acute care issues in the case of a bronchitis or snunsitis that they can get in and be seen. where do they go? they come to primary care doctors like me and i encourage alternative pathways. i believe the v.a. serves a role. we should support it in that role. but i believe that veterans deserve excellent insurance that they can pick anywhere they want to go in any hospital or provider throughout the

state that they want to go to. i would support that. moderator: governor romney? gov. romney: i think the doctor is right on that. my own view is these people who have served our country who have put their lives at risk, in many cases seriously injured physically and mentally deserve our very best. it is a national embarrassment that we have young people and older people who have served in our military that need healthcare, that need particularly mental healthcare, and they can't get treatment. and they wait in line for as long as a year to get treatment. it's inexcuseable. and for the reasons that i've mentioned and dr. kennedy has mentioned i think it is appropriate for us to say, look. if you want to go to the v.a. hospital, terrific. if it's proximate for you that's wonderful. but if you want to go to another primary care physician or you want to go to tertiary care or a hospital in your area or a mental health professional in your area, you have a voucher to take to that particular individual as well. you don't have to stay within the v.a. system unless you want to stay within the v.a. system.

let's make sure we don't continue to delay the provision of healthcare for these people who have served our country so valiantly. it is inexcuseable. it is something i will work very hard to change to make sure people have the kind of alternative paths that dr. kennedy mentioned. moderator: i think you again agree so let's go to lisa riley roche for a question and first to governor romney. >> thank you. i'd like to know, what can you do for utahns that your opponent cannot in a divided and dysfunctional congress? we've already talked about that a little. would you be willing to work with others to find common ground on pressing issues like taxes, immigration, or are you not inclined to compromise on policy differences? governor romney? gov. romney: lisa, i don't compromise on principles. i look for places to find common ground. i had occasion to serve as governor in a state that was pretty democrat. my legislature was about 89% democrat. and it was obvious to me to get

anything done i had to find places where there was common ground. we were able to do thatrom time to time and make some real progress in that regard. one of the things i did was this. i decided i wasn't going to attack the speaker of the house or senate president on a personal basis. we could disagree on policy but i wasn't going to attack them. after about six months i got a note from one of the two of them saying governor romney i noticed over the last six months you've never attacked me. i'm going to stop attacking you. we got together every monday from one to two hours, talked about the issues the state faced, and we worked together. that has to happen in washington. it's the way it used to be in washington. presidential leadership is essential for that. but i also think individual members of the senate have the capacity to reach within their own caucus as well as across the aisle and see, build the kind of friendships and associations that lead to trust and the search for common ground. immigration being one of those. moderator: governor, time here please.

gov. romney: i'll work very hard to work collaboratively to get things done. rep. kennedy: i think building relationships is such a fundamental part of humanity. it is a key role we should play in the political arena. i just say i'm grateful to hear my opponent say he is willing to work with people because when he is labeling president trump as a phony and as a fraud, and pastor jeffreys as a bigot i don't see those as productive steps in building relation shims. everybody has the right to do as they see fit in working with individuals but that's what i've done my whole professional life. i take anybody that comes to me as a doctor and i am more than happy to take them as they are. i am not trying to change them into anything they don't want to be. i am pleased and honored to work with them. i find it to be exhilarating to find people that are different from me that i can actually learn from and expand my view on the world and work productively even when we disagree. we can do so respectfully and i do believe that is a fundamental difference between how i approach the world and

the doctor world as well as the legislature. i'm willing to work with the people that have good ideas. i think my opponent has demonstrated occasionally and that's fine. he can do as he wishes but that he is not willing to do that. for me, relationship building is key to getting things done. moderator: we are very tight on time so i need to proceed. gov. romney: no, no, no. you can't go without that. 20 seconds. i get longer. that is a lot. first of all i've known the president a long time and the president has endorsed me in this campaign which means he respects people who call them like they see him. number two with regard to robert jevers this is a guy that said mormonism is a cult, a hersey from the pit of hell that joseph smith is a person of satan. that person is allowed to say that under the first amendment anywhere they want and have the right to do that but the idea this person would be chosen by the state department to represent our nation at the opening of an embassy is simply wrong. and for representative kennedy to call him and apologize to him is absolutely inexplicable.

jeffers should be apologizing to representative kennedy and to the people of utah of my faith and other faiths. he said worse about muslims. when people express bigotry, they ought to be called out for it. moderator: representative kennedy as briefly as possible here please. rep. kennedy: my opponent has been quite clear as to the way he stands on things and he calls them like he sees them and i just say i am not sure with president trump that you see things the right way. i do note some good -- i do know good eye doctors if you'd like a referral to have your vision checked. i think president trump has been outstanding. he is one of the presidents that we have that actually keeps his promises on the campaign trail. i'm proud to stand with the president and not deride him publicly. if i disagree with the president i will do so in a respectful fashion. moderator: this has been quite an exchange. thank you. you've gone over time enough that we don't have time for the final wrapup question. earlier we mentioned that governor romney gained ballot access by gathering signatures. we got to clarify he also qualified for the ballot through the republican convention process.

it's been an enlightening hour with our candidates mitt romney and mike kennedy. they are candidates for the republican u.s. senate primary election on june 26. thank you both for participating. and for your desire to serve in public office. we celebrate that. we wish you both success on primary election day. thanks, also, to our panelists for their contribution. a special thanks today for the efforts of scott howl and thomas wright, cochairs of the utah debate commission board. we appreciate the many hours they spend leading the commission and working to bring utah voters these debates. the utah debate commission urges you to vote in the upcoming primary election. vote for -- to vote for republican party candidates you must declare your affiliation with that party. you can do that and register to vote at the same time at voting locations. your county clerk can help you with questions on how and where to vote. please visit the utah debate commission website to view this

debate again or see any of 2018's primary election debates. thank you for tuning in. >> congress returns next week from the memorial day holiday. the senate back monday to debate president trump's judicial nominations for u.s. district courts in kentucky. texas, and alabama. the house returns tuesday to work on its first federal spending bills for 2019 funding energy, the v.a., and house operations. and work on water infrastructure projects. you can watch live coverage of the house on c-span, the senate on c-span 2.

and now more of c-span's coverage of this year's commencement addresses with anita hill at wesleyan university. maine republican senator -- sally pipes at pepperdine and instagram chief operating officer marne levine. anita hill was asked to speak at wesleyan after author daniel handler withdrew after allegations of sexual misconduct. earlier this year professor hill was chosen to lead an during confirmation hearings, professor hill became one of the first women to speak publicly about her experiences with workplace harassment. [applause]